Simplify Architecture
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Sou Fujimoto, what was your initial motivation for starting, as you call it, a “weak architecture”?
It was some years ago, at the beginning of my career, when I introduced this term. At that time I was thinking about what will be the next step of modern architecture. Le Corbusier’s urban planning was very strong. The extremely strong axis was a big framework in which the details were designed gradually. It is a very clear way but too strong compared to natural orders like a forest or a natural grown village. I liked to try to find an alternative way to design architecture: “Weak architecture” is rather made by the relationships of the local and small buildings together.
What was your initial experience to think about such a kind of architecture?
After graduation I had a lot of time, so I read “Order Out of Chaos” by Ilya Prigogine. That was quite difficult, I could not understand the whole story, but the basic idea was very clear and very inspiring to me. When I read that book I thought, “this philosophy, this way of thinking is completely opposite to modern architecture”. So I tried to transform some of these scientific ideas into architecture, which was not easy at all. I have tried many, many things.
Your research in architectural thinking lead you to a kind of mandala-scheme. What is this “Fujimoto Mandala” about?
I have always tried to simplify architecture, to get an essence from it, and to draw some simple shape or form. I gradually understood that I liked to find some kind of fundamental form for architecture. So indeed 2,000 years old Roman architecture is as close and important to me as modern architecture or my everyday studying process. Once I liked to put it in one drawing in a parallel layout. First that was just a kind of fun but afterwards I was quite conscious of having found something fundamental in our architectural process – not a rule, but a form. Architecture is a very complex topic, it has many, many aspects. Compress them and find something simple – and it gets really exciting!
You coined your approach as “primitivism” or a “new simplicity”. What do you think – why has the time come to transfer such kind of ideas into architecture?
Today we can think about more and more complex things in a simple way. In the modern age we had to simplify a lot – but now we can handle, we can treat very complex things in a simple but not reductive way. We can find something clear but very complex and deep at the same time. Usually, I am talking about a forest. A forest looks very simple from outside, but actually it is very complex – many different kinds of animals are living there, many different kinds of trees are growing there. Such kind of a very clear concept could give us more and more rich experiences in our daily life.
When reading your book “Primitive Future”, one gets the impression that architecture is really a basic, somehow philosophical topic. Why are you so serious?
Oh, really? Well, sometimes I am very serious about architecture but at the same time I also like to play with it. I like to find it more relaxed, because it is the main part of our daily life, so it is not just a topic of thinking. I like to combine such kind of a fundamental philosophical thinking and a playful, joyful experience in architecture itself. I think that is a very creative approach. Sometimes philosophical thinking can create something joyful, playful – and playful thinking can create something unexpected and new. We can find a serious philosophy from joking with architecture!
Do you want to take part in a kind of research on the possibilities of architecture?
Absolutely, I like to open the door of a new architecture! Sometimes I think my architecture style looks like scattering all the possibilities forward, and then waiting what will be happening... I am convinced that an inter-communication between many ideas could open the possibilities of architecture itself!
A very important part of your architectural concept is the in-between space. Tell me: what are the qualities and potentials?
Actually in-between philosophy is one of the good traditions of Japanese architecture. So in that sense, I am very interested in such kind of things. And at the same time, these days everybody likes to divide many things clearly in 0/1-terms, because of the influence of the digital technology. But architecture remains an analogous phenomenon – we have not only one homogenous space! In-between space is very exciting to me, because it reveals the hidden space and discloses it. Usually, between inside and outside is just a wall, so the in-between space is hidden somehow in the wall. But if you make it visible you can experience it. It will be more and more important to experience the different graduations in our daily life: inside and outside, brightness and darkness – both is very important, but in-between we can find many different variations.
You mentioned the Japanese tradition of architecture. Are you referring to Japanese spatial concepts and behaviours directly?
Actually in our daily life Japanese tradition and culture are not influencing us so deeply. But I am very interested in such a kind of disappearing precious culture. We have to be conscious about what the old Japanese culture was. We can get very refreshing ideas for contemporary architecture if we start to see the big gap of old Japanese days and today.
Japanese culture as a foreign culture?
Yes indeed, that can be very exciting! We have such kind of positive distance from the old Japanese culture. And because of that distance, from a free point of view we can find something unseen.
In March your Tokyo Apartment complex has been opened. Why is it a “Tokyo that has never existed”, as you describe it yourself?
Doing the Tokyo Apartments, I was very much influenced by the tiny streets – roji – and small wooden houses which create this very crowded Tokyo atmosphere. I like to do more and more Tokyo-like things, more and more crowded, dense! I want to stack everything and create a kind of three-dimensional roji. So indeed, the Tokyo Apartments are inspired by Tokyo but they are not like Tokyo, they are a kind of Super-Tokyo.
Herzog & de Meuron did something very similar in their Vitra House, which was completed only some weeks before your own project. Why did you use this kind of prototyped houses in your design?
First, it was just a joke. Initially we had stacked just cubes but we had seen that it turned out to be a rather usual building. Only when we started to stack the usual house shape it became really a representation of the crazyness of crowded Tokyo. Secondly, we found an unexpected space between the house shape and the bottom of the next flat floor. We have put openings to the roof there. From the opening you get to see just the bottom of the next house.
In general, how do you succeed in creating the in-between space as a real sensual space? Most of your projects are using extensively minimalistic white.
For a long time I was not so brave in using colours. Until now we have used just white elements, because they are very easy to handle and to treat. By now I think that is a much too simplifying approach. I like to use many more different materials and colours to create much more complex in-between things. Once I was very surprised when I saw Frank Gehry’s MIT Stata Center, a huge building composed like a jungle of materials, colours and shapes. I felt very comfortable surrounded by so many different nuances of expression. It was a very fresh experience for me and I would like to create something similar of my own in upcoming projects.
Recently your Musashino Art University Museum & Library has been opened to the public. What were the difficulties in adapting the spiral concept to a public building of this size?
It has been an extremely exciting challenge to me! For the Musashino Art University Museum & Library we coined the term “Forest of Books”. We imagined the place to be born from books alone, a landscape composed of infinite layers of various books. The spiral configuration affirms the idea that a forest is a kind of diverse meeting place for people and information. In this spiral, two apparently contradictious ideas co-exist and are blended with each other: “searchability” creates a spatial configuration being organized like a clock face; “strollability” creates infinite depth and layering which through engagement surpasses one’s comprehension. These two ideas are allowed to mutually co-exist and complement each other. If applied to such a huge scale and such a functional context, the concept begins to bring up pluralistic qualities and deeper awareness to this end.
Last year you took part in a collaborative work with Toyo Ito and Terunobu Fujimori for the Sumika project, a future house workshop for the Tokyo gasworks. What is your relationship with these grand masters of the Japanese scene?
I am not a student of a famous architect and for a long time I didn’t have any ties with the academic scene. Fortunately in my early days, Toyo Ito and Terunobu Fujimori discovered me in competitions that I took part in and they supported me. And they influenced me a lot in my architectural thinking. Especially Toyo Ito is very eager to support a younger generation. He was very generous and gave us small projects to have our architectural philosophy realized. Recently Ito has been talking to me a lot about the social impact of architecture. He thinks that the architects of the younger generation are too much absorbed by themselves. I still have to think what “public” means for me. It cannot be the common idea of public, I have to find my own public.
Sou Fujimoto, born in 1971 in Hokkaido, studied architecture in Tokyo where he founded his own studio in 2000. His work, influenced by the notion of what he calls “weak architecture” and “primitive architecture”, became quickly known for its unusual combination of spaces and constructive elements. His projects especially question the usual hierarchies and gestures of pre-modern as well as modern architecture, leading to new complex spatial orders and functional openness. Sou Fujimoto’s work has been internationally exhibited, including this year’s Architecture Biennale in Venice.
